Capital Press Club Podcast
Capital Press Club Podcast
CPC Legacy Podcast Episode #10
Bubba Wallace's stand against Confederate flags in NASCAR was a watershed moment for sports and society. We draw parallels between his bravery and Colin Kaepernick's activism, and reflect on the cultural resistance that such changes incite. From the historical significance of Wallace's actions to the broader implications for inclusivity in sports, we unpack how symbols of hate have permeated popular culture and discuss the racial intimidation that persists. We explore Revolt's reassurance of its predominantly Black ownership amidst recent allegations, adding another layer to our discussion on Black representation in media.
The media landscape is fraught with controversies, and this episode doesn't shy away from them. We scrutinize Revolt's separation from P Diddy and its repercussions for Black media representation, examining the potential fallout of Diddy's legal troubles on political activism within the Black community. In a compelling segment, we also cover the firing of Breonna Joy Gray from The Hill, putting a spotlight on the challenges progressive voices encounter. Shifting gears, we analyze the media portrayal of WNBA stars Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark, and touch on the LA Clippers scandal and its portrayal in a new miniseries. This episode is a comprehensive look at pivotal issues in sports, media, and representation that you won't want to miss!
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Capital Press Club Legacy Podcast. I am Dr Colin Campbell. Welcome to episode 10. Joining me today is my partner in crime, who is usually behind the scenes but is also now in front of the camera, derek Kenney. Derek, how you doing, man, I'm doing great.
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I am looking forward to another great discussion about some of the things that are happening in this world. That's all over social media, but it's happening so quickly Sometimes we get a chance to talk about it. So looking forward to a lively discussion today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. So we start out with this day in Black history. Just in 2020, not too long ago, bubba Wallace the NASCAR phenom, the NASCAR champion demanded that all Confederate flags be removed. Had NASCAR making the statement really quickly, just saying that the presence of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events runs contrary to our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all fans, our competitors and our industry. Bringing people together around a love for racing and the community it creates is what makes fans and sport special. The display of the Confederate flag will be prohibited from all NASCAR events and properties. So he definitely made an impact. Of course, this all is surrounding the time where the George Floyd incident happened and other police shootings, so this was part of that momentum of trying to make changes. Even if they are somewhat cosmetic, there's still incremental changes. That's still a major change.
Speaker 2:You look at the core constituents for NASCAR. Traditionally you're looking at the Bible Belt, which extends all the way through the area that you might say include the people that are really affectionate of the Confederate flag. So in doing that, it's NASCAR. It's making a really profound statement. It's not like the NBA doing it or the NFL, where the majority of the players are African-American. You're looking at a sports industry where the large majority of the fans and I would say, the drivers, are all white Americans that may not have strong feelings about the flag. So make that type of statement at that time Did that take a lot of guts as a corporate or as an entity that relies on the patronage of people that may lean towards a favorable perception of the Confederate flag?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would even say that a lot of them do have strong feelings. Once you start to remove it or you start to diminish its prominence, that's when you start to see a lot of people, predominantly white Americans, trying to push back and try to reclaim the flag or try to historicize what its significance was. We're seeing this in other parts of the country where they're doing renamings of schools or buildings that were named after Confederate generals, things like that. So there was a lot of pushback because they didn't want to remove the flags, obviously. And then we also have to remember there was that scandal where they found ropes hanging in Wallace's garage and they were nooses and they were trying to investigate who put the ropes in his garage that were in the shape of nooses.
Speaker 1:Some people said that it wasn't a noose, that it was an exaggerated claim, but we do know that these things have happened too where you have a black man. I haven't heard it happen to black women, not that it hasn't, I just haven't heard any news incidents, but I've heard several where black men have been at work. They open their locker or something like that and then there's a noose hanging in their locker. It's a type of stochastic type of racial terrorism that happens in workplaces, and I don't think that Wallace was excluded from that. If he says that that's what the rope looked like, I would take his word in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and let's give him kudos for the bravery it takes to take a stand, to stand up and say something that he knows will not be very popular among his colleagues, maybe among his fan base, but he felt strongly about it and he took a stand. So, as we look back at this moment in black history, let's give him kudos for taking that, because it's a chance that you're taking to do what's right. There's risks involved there.
Speaker 1:Most definitely. We saw that definitely with Colin Kaepernick right. It's a chance that you're taking to do what's right. You know there's risks involved. Yes, most definitely. We saw that definitely with Colin Kaepernick right.
Speaker 2:He took a stand, or rather kneel, and he hasn't been playing in the NFL ever since then. Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that's what. There are people who want that to happen, right when it's like. Don't shake the status quo, and if you do, there will be consequences. Long time ago, putting up the Confederate flag of a group of people who lost a war and who wanted to subjugate a large part of its population, I mean, why is that lionized in some ways?
Speaker 2:And it's funny how time and I don't want to blame this point, because if you're over the age of 40 years old, you may have been a fan of a popular TV show many moons ago. Maybe it was the 80s or late 70s- I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:These guys were driving around in a car literally named after a Confederate general. General Lee was Confederate. It was a fun and very popular show. I guess that was 20, 30 years ago, maybe 40 years ago telling my age but now I think people realize the the impact that carrying that type of hatred forward into the modern day is not something to be taken lightly.
Speaker 1:so yeah, definitely not, definitely not. And it. It took me a little while when I got older to realize why my dad wasn't a huge fan of that show. Meanwhile, my friends and I thought it was amazing, you know, we wanted to get the car and ride around and pretend we were one of the boys and all that stuff. Yikes, anyway, all right.
Speaker 1:So, moving along, we were talking about revolt and how they tried to reassure its audience members that it's still at least 80 percent black owned. Last year, with the allegations coming from his ex-girlfriend of abuse and many other not so positive but very negative things, there was a kind of a payment of a few million dollars, allegedly paid to her so that she wouldn't talk about it anymore, but at the same time he sold a lot of his shares. Time he sold a lot of his shares. Those shares will be divvied up amongst more of the staffers at Revolt, but it will still remain Black-owned. So that could be a positive thing and this is something that Tavio Samuels, the CEO of Revolt, talked about that he wanted to keep the Revolt in predominantly Black ownership so that it can provide a lot of the important topics that are discussed within Black society, and to keep that legacy and that history of having a predominantly Black-owned media company, despite the fallout from P Diddy and all of the negative scandal that's surrounding him right now, of course, with that story that came out, with the recording of him with his ex-girlfriend and what looked like some very serious abuse there.
Speaker 1:So I think that Revolt wanted to part ways with Diddy, separate itself. If we remember correctly, diddy was also the target of trolling from one of his not so official rivals, 50 Cent, who talked about trying to push him to sell his shares last year as well. I think maybe 50 Cent wanted a piece of that, or maybe he was just trying to call attention to it to make things a little bit more difficult for Diddy, as the controversy surrounded him and quite somewhat suffocated him in the news cycle when it came to that. So, again, revolt it's still 80% Black-owned. They'll still continue to produce Black content, but it is now separate from P Diddy. A lot of those shares will go to employees and other staffers at that media company. So, derek, what do you think about this, this move? Should they have kept Diddy a part of it, considering he was one of the founders, or what do you think Were they right to-?
Speaker 2:I think it's absolutely the best move possible separated, while they're still easy to do, separated before any other civil impact of any other civil cases may come about any other negativity.
Speaker 2:As we know We've talked about before it's very hard to have black media organizations of substance, especially that whose mission is to share accurate and informative news, valuable news.
Speaker 2:So the African-American community there's not many out there. So this move to ensure that the organization that was founded with the purpose of benefiting not only the hip-hop community but the African-American community will still be around and not too solely impacted by the goings on of P Diddy and I believe, as we may both may be aware, this may be just the tip of the iceberg. There's so many allegations and we're in an environment where information is traveling and it's so easy to share information and we have some of the best journalists in the world and this country. So if this remains an issue, diddy and this is from 2016, diddy's been around since the 90s. Who knows what else is out there that may be on the horizon that will take his brand or anything associated with his brand down with him. So here's to hoping that this move helps to keep this institution alive and some of the good work that it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's face it, this has been a bad several months for Diddy, after a federal raid last year as well. I think that was last year, was it earlier this year? Time flies so quickly.
Speaker 2:It was earlier this year. Oh yeah, it was in March or April, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, right. Earlier in the year where he absconded to Florida, Some people thought the island of Antigua Shouts out to Antigua.
Speaker 1:And you know, yeah, where half my family is from. For those of you watching, you know I have an intimate connection with Antigua, but, yeah, so he. You know the raid happened. I believe his sons were arrested and now they have all of this evidence. They're probably combing through. From what we've been, you know, what we're to understand is that there have been recordings all around his house with cameras and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:So you know, looking at P Diddy as a media mogul, I think those days are either gone or they're quickly dwindling, because he did have a strong media influence where he would talk on panels about black issues, about politics. If we remember, he was very integral in trying to encourage people to get out the vote. I forgot what year it was, but he was training for a marathon to call attention to getting out the vote In 2016, he was very vocal In 2020, he was vocal about people voting and being politically active and, of course, now he's silent because of the scandal that's surrounding him. So Now he's silent because of the scandal that's surrounding him. So you know, of course, what he did, what he's been accused of, although there hasn't been a trial yet obviously not good.
Speaker 1:But looking at black people in media and, looking at media representation, it's unfortunate that another voice is silenced or another platform has been de-emphasized in the efforts of motivating Black Americans to be more politically active, to know about the issues and to make their own decisions so that there can be a stronger sense of self-determination when it comes to the political landscape. So we'll see what happens, how revolt goes forward with this. But you know, diddy was a face, he was a, a figurehead. It wasn't just a figurehead, but he was also, um, you know, someone who people listened to or at least paid attention to, right?
Speaker 2:so let's see how revolt handles this going forward, but it will be without p diddy yeah and uh, speaking of voices being silenced in the media landscape, uh, someone has lost their job just recently. That was brianna joy gray right yeah, brianna joy gray.
Speaker 1:yeah, she was a correspondent or a consultant, rather, I think that was her official title, but she was an on-air talent for the Hill which is a political online platform.
Speaker 1:I do believe they have print as well, but it's a very popular online platform speaking about politics and what's happening around Washington. And what's happening around Washington and Breonna Joy Gray was terminated after it looked like she gave an eye roll during an interview or at the very end of an interview with someone whose sister was kidnapped by Hamas and Joy Gray was trying to get the sister's take on what happened. And at the end of the interview, the sister said that her sister, who was being held captive by Hamas, was being subjected to some unspeakable crimes and that people around the world should really be paying attention to it. And it looked like Joy Gray kind of gave an unempathetic, unsympathetic eye roll as she tried to tease to a commercial and it seemed like shortly after that happened, she got a notice, an email from management saying that her services would no longer be needed. And that's going to be it for Joy Gray at the Hill.
Speaker 1:She was a kind of a progressive voice at the Hill. She was a former aide for Bernie Sanders, as we know, the progressive former presidential candidate at one time in 2016. And now she's. I don't know what her next steps are, but she will be doing. Whatever they are, she'll be doing it without the hill in the background, and she's just one of a few people who have been terminated from their jobs surrounding this particular issue, when it comes to Hamas, when it comes to Israel, when it comes to some of these hot button issues that have definitely grabbed the headlines in the past several months. So you know, what do you make of this? Again, you have another Black voice silenced right, and as we try to motivate and we try to encourage Black people to be a part of media because there is such a dearth of Black voices out there, black perspectives we see these voices slowly dwindling once again one by one.
Speaker 2:I think it's also the danger of the blurry line between journalism and information. Where you're not, you don't have the you're not your role. Her role may not necessarily be as a journalist with the Hill she's more of a correspondent, I guess you could say a consultant, and as a journalist you're trying to relay the message and let people interpret how they receive the information and how well they read it. As what is blue or red, they see it as silver or black, or they see it as whatever is up to them, or black, or they see it as whatever it's up to them.
Speaker 2:So when she adds a little bit of I don't want to say shade, but when she colors the facts or colors the information or responds in a way to what the woman is saying positive or negative is she taking away from the integrity of the information and changing the interpretation of the information and colorize or changing the interpretation of how people may receive information being given? Is he doing a disservice? Is that part of her job is to give the information in a way that people can receive it and judge for themselves objectively? And when you make it kind of subjective? And that's where we have this blurry line between journalists and other people that are giving the news, where I think journalists are called upon to bring the information objectively and then others have a lot more latitude when it comes to being subjective. What do you think about that as a lifelong journalist and broadcast journalist, and also a scholar? What are some of the things that you know you're responsible for doing as you bring forward news of this nature?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it depends on what platform you're working with or what corporation you're working with. Because of the 24-hour news cycle, because of the ongoing and very robust engagement with social media, there is that blurry line sometimes between objective journalism, just introducing the facts, and letting the audience decide, make their own decisions on whatever the issue is. And then there's commentary, which helps to keep that momentum going of providing content on a daily basis about a particular issue. And I think that's where she ran into some trouble, because she was introduced to the platform and brought into the platform to give some perspective. That does engage some level of commentary on her part. She often was on the set with a white guy who was more conservative than she was, so he would offer his more conservative opinion and commentary about political issues. She would offer the more progressive or liberal side of those issues, right, and they would play off of each other in that way. So she had to do both. She had to play on both sides there of providing facts but also giving her own opinion on things. Even if it was somewhat calibrated and I think that even here, when you watch the interview, she was really just having her interviewee produce facts and their own take on what's happening and try to give an appeal about the rescue of her sister or something. But it's that nonverbal communication which sometimes we overlook how important that is. It wasn't the words that Breonna Joy Gray said, it was that slight eye roll. It was a quick eye closure and then an eye roll as she came out of that eye closure that almost seemed very dismissive of the ordeal that her interviewee and potentially the interviewee's sister was going through and I think that's what got her in trouble. If you just listen to her words, she did seem to push back a little bit, but not in a really combative way but more of a challenging way with the interviewee about some of the realities on the ground. But the way she engaged verbally did not sound dismissive. It didn't sound like she was trying to neglect or just ignore the urgency of what her interviewee was talking about. But when she made that eye roll gesture, that really exposed possibly how she really felt internally and I think that sent the wrong message and that's why she got in trouble.
Speaker 1:So you know, my history has been most of the time to just deliver news pretty straight, to just give facts about what's happening on the ground or what's happening. Whatever situation or story I'm put on, every once in a while I'll be asked for commentary. Sometimes I'm interviewed by journalists, and that's when you really have to be a little bit more mindful about what's being said, because it could be interpreted in different ways. Right, how one person interprets one thing may be totally different from another person, especially if they feel that they have a very close connection to the subject matter, especially if they feel that they have a very close connection to the subject matter. So, on an issue like this, which is not just controversial but very sensitive but has a long history, these kinds of issues are where you have to be the most mindful. I would say this is probably one of the top issues where you have to be the most mindful. You could criticize, I think, our country without much penalty, but if you do that with other locations, it could have serious consequences.
Speaker 2:And to be fair to Ms Joy Gray, there have been instances, I'm sure, where journalists or other people that are responsible for bringing forward information in the news have done something similar or worse and have maintained their jobs. However, it is, in fact, a situation where she did lose her job. For what happened in this situation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think what she was talking about afterwards was the suppression of free speech personalities who suffered some type of penalty for speaking about this issue or an adjacent issue to that region, or the people in that region. Um, I could definitely think of a few. There's Whoopi O'Byrne, there's Nick Cannon, there's Mark Lamont Hill, breonna Joy Gray, candace Owens All right, so there's five right there. Um, not black, but I think Rick Sanchez was another one, latino. He lost his job so, and then you know, there have been other black notables who have been, who have been criticized for allegedly being against a group of people. I'm trying to be careful myself, as you can tell.
Speaker 2:So we're going to move on to some other subjects, to talk about.
Speaker 1:So we're going to move on to some other subjects to talk about.
Speaker 2:But I think it is important that we address issues like these, because part of what we want to do is not only talk about some issues of the day, but also talk about some of the instances where a professional in communications has dealt with some type of adversity or some type of lessons learned from these situations. And I think, when it's appropriate and when the timing's right, maybe we should have a deeper conversation. Right now is not the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, certainly.
Speaker 1:I do want to talk about the importance of having media ownership, though, you see, because if you don't have media ownership and you don't have a control over your platform or the conduit in which you are broadcasting, messaging, then you are subject to any type of shift in policy, to any type of termination or consequences, just based on who your employer is right. And I think that's where Black journalists have a challenge, because there is again a paucity of Black ownership. If there was a channel where they had just total ownership and total rule over what was being disseminated or what was being talked about, yes, could they face a backlash I'm sure they could like on any controversial issue, but would they be in as much jeopardy of losing their jobs or a channel shutting down? That would be a bit tougher. And so we also have to think about the issues of free speech as journalists.
Speaker 1:What's not allowed to talk about, and how much can we talk about something without being a penalty or some type of draconian move where someone loses their job or their livelihood? Those are things to think about too. It's not like this business is expanding. We're facing a shrinkage within the journalism industry, and there hasn't been really a discussion on how it can be, how it could change course or how it could be expanded or how new jobs could be created. Right now, a lot of people are going to the internet, but this is where Breonna Joy Gray was terminated from was from an online platform. So I do think that we have to have those discussions, too when it comes to Black media ownership, and it's important so that we could have a little bit more breadth when it comes to freedom of speech and expressing our own perspectives that may not always align with the status quo.
Speaker 2:Speaking of differences of opinion, I don't know who's the greater. Are we talking about Caitlyn or are we talking about Angel? And we're talking about the WNBA having a positive impact from the recent introduction of two bright young superstars, Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark, right?
Speaker 1:Caitlin Clark. Caitlin Clark, the superstar.
Speaker 2:Two superstars come to the NWNBA. What do you think about these two young ladies? They're coming into the NWNBA and people are watching People are watching the NWNBA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people are watching the WNBA, and those of you who are listening and watching this may say, ok, how does this fit into a Capital Press Club podcast? But really, what I wanted to address here was media depiction, not so much that fans are watching basketball, because this is not a sports broadcast or anything like that, but media depiction. And I think one of the things that Angel Reeves talked about was the phenomenon surrounding the popularity of Caitlin Clark. And now I don't want people to mistake me, caitlin Clark is obviously a very talented athlete, let me put that there very talented athlete who had a large following before she went professional to Indiana, before she arrived to Indiana, when she was on the Iowa Hawkeyes team.
Speaker 1:But I do observe that there were more headlines with that rivalry. Once Angel Reese put up her hand, I believe, to show a ring or something like that you know, just talking smack, as a lot of people do during basketball games or any sports event and you start to see headlines with both Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. And then this rivalry where it was like I don't want to say as strong as good versus evil, but even Angel Reese said she's fine with playing the bad guy, especially if it gets more attention to be put on the WNBA, and I wondered if this was fair to Angel Reese. She seems to be handling it okay, but as far as media depiction, we know that there have been a lot of negative stereotypes associated with Black Americans and it seems like this is what's playing out in the WNBA or media surrounding the WNBA, even if it is encouraging more fans to go to sports arenas to watch them play.
Speaker 2:Now a lot of some people are comparing their competitive rivalry to Dr I'm sorry Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. Now, granted, of course we've we're on the heels of we've seen the whole career of Magic Johnson and and larry bird, so we know how great they were, not just as college players, but throughout their professional careers as well. Uh, does that? How does that shadow from two of the greatest uh nba players, arguably um, affect the perception and expectations for um the young lady Caitlin and Angel as they go into the professional ranks?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's already had an effect where pretty much every day in sports headlines they're talking about the performance of Caitlin Clark she had a rough start to the season but then they're also talking about Angel Reese and how she has been. But then they're also talking about Angel Reese and how she has been had her wake up call in joining the WNBA too, and I think that part of this rivalry where they talk about the performance of both women and not to exclude other basketball players, but it seems like these two are constantly in the spotlight I think that continues that rivalry that they had on the court when they were competing for the NCAA championship. So I think that you know this is going to continue for quite some time. I think it'll be funny if in the future, they end up on the same team and so then they'll have to play together and that will definitely make headlines for sure.
Speaker 2:What about another bad? Looking at basketball, there's another new thing happening in media talking about a basketball organization the clippers. Uh, the clippers, yeah. Have they had a championship? I don't think they've had a championship, but they've had some controversy. What's happening with the clippers? Yeah, this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is going to be our last uh topic for the podcast and it's just talking about clip. This is with the scandal surrounding Donald Sterling when he was recorded by his girlfriend or his mistress at the time when he told her not to bring black men to the basketball games or to associate with black people, and then he was basically forced out of the league, to sell the team and to be bounced out, and so this is a short miniseries talking about that. I think it's a four or six-part miniseries. It also stars Lawrence Fishburne, which we know is a very astute actor with a long list of productions he's been a part of, so it should be interesting. I have not seen it yet, but I do know that it has been said it's a pretty good miniseries, I think I believe Donald Sterling is'm not ashamed to say that I love Married With Children.
Speaker 2:And also he was fantastic in Modern Family, which is a very funny show, and I think this kind of takes us full circle from the beginning of the show, talking about taking a stand and having business decisions made based off of what's right in terms of the perception of society. And then also P Diddy and Revolt TV and changing ownership based off of the untoward actions of an owner, where the ownership had to change hands. Of Revolt TV and now we're looking at the Clippers, where you have a combination of overt I guess you would say racism, and then also some types of awkward, to say the least, goings-on between the owner of an organization and his girlfriend. Was this his girlfriend at the time? Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, his girlfriend mistress something. Yeah, exactly, it's its own scandal, but I believe it's only the Dallas Mavericks right now that has a CEO and a manager who are black, so there's only one team out of the NBA. But again, there needs to be a stronger push for black media ownership. This has been something that has been talked about since the late 60s with the Kerner Commission report and its depiction on black media, but we'll talk more about that in future podcasts. For now, this is the end of our 10th episode and we're glad that you had a chance to listen and watch Capital Press Club Legacy Podcast. We'll see you next time.